That is a question I recently asked a group of Christians on an internet forum. The answers were varied. Some said that God no longer judges nations in a corporate sense. Others say that the physical nation of Israel is the only nation under God's divine protection. And many agree that America is being, or is about to be, punished by God.
Most churches and Christians who believe God is punishing America as a nation believe He is doing so due to the rampant sexual abominations and injustices such as abortion. Others say that even if these sins ceased that we'd still be under judgment since we cannot stand justified before God as a nation with anything less than a 100% Christian population. Others call for the "Ninevah" approach of corporate repentance, but if memory serves me correctly, Ninevah had 100% participation. Is that an intrinsic possibility in America?
Now, while that is very interesting. The only problem is that the percentage of people who call themselves Christian hasn't deviated a great deal in the last 100 years. But society's norms have deviated from the Christian standard to the secular standard in leaps and bounds. Shouldn't society's norms tend to follow the majority of that particular society's religious conviction? It is common sense really, if the majority of society thinks murder is wrong, shouldn't murder really be a non-issue in that society, except for the occasional loony going nuts every so often.
To say we have lost God's favor on our nation assumes that we once had it. We cannot lose something we never had. But I am betting that we never had a nation that was fully, 100% Christian. So, in my mind, that argument breaks down. It is quite apparent with our leadership in the world (and other factors) in the last century that we indeed did have God's favor as a nation. And the dwindling away of our sovereignty and exceptionalism tells me that God is slowly withdrawing His hand of preservation and power. Those two things were, in my view, indicative of God's favor, in the case of Israel in Old Testament times, and indicative of us in the recent past.
When churches claim that our current calamities are God's judgment, the evidence they cite is that America's societal norms are profoundly deviating from God's prescription. Societal acceptance of biblically defined abominations like abortion and homosexuality are their favorites. This acceptance was a dead issue 100 years ago. These sins were, I am certain, still committed in secret back then. But society didn't accept them. Homosexuality, abortion, and even pre-marital sex carried a stygma. Today, society condones such actions.
What changed in the last 100 years that has convinced some Evangelicals and Catholics that God's judgment on America is nigh at hand?
For me, it isn't so much that society accepts, and in some cases condones, such abominations. Sin has always existed. I think it is God withdrawing His hand of protection and preservation because America at large is simply telling God we do not want Him to be part of our corporate society. Even Christians think this. We want Him in our coat pockets so we can take Him out and talk to Him, ask Him for things, and feel good about ourselves. But we don't want His influence in our society as a whole. Taking prayer out of schools is hard evidence of this. God, once again, is no longer the great Orchestrator, and is perceived as the great Interferer.
When churches claim that our current calamities are God's judgment, the evidence they cite is that America's societal norms are profoundly deviating from God's prescription. Societal acceptance of biblically defined abominations like abortion and homosexuality are their favorites. This acceptance was a dead issue 100 years ago. These sins were, I am certain, still committed in secret back then. But society didn't accept them. Homosexuality, abortion, and even pre-marital sex carried a stygma. Today, society condones such actions.
What changed in the last 100 years that has convinced some Evangelicals and Catholics that God's judgment on America is nigh at hand?
For me, it isn't so much that society accepts, and in some cases condones, such abominations. Sin has always existed. I think it is God withdrawing His hand of protection and preservation because America at large is simply telling God we do not want Him to be part of our corporate society. Even Christians think this. We want Him in our coat pockets so we can take Him out and talk to Him, ask Him for things, and feel good about ourselves. But we don't want His influence in our society as a whole. Taking prayer out of schools is hard evidence of this. God, once again, is no longer the great Orchestrator, and is perceived as the great Interferer.
So part of the responsibility I lay at the doorstep of the Church itself. Judgment begins at the house of God. I think the Church has lost much of her way, and wants an ally where she is offered either a master or a judge. One of the many indictments I have against the church is they all want to cease to be an earthbound entity of strangers and pilgrims whose home lies elsewhere in reality, and they want to establish their own little controlling aristocracy on Earth. It leads to paralysis of free thought, and gradually its adherents become pacified with only the most superficial doctrines, leaving the depths of Christ unexplored and unclaimed. To put it in Scriptural terms, "The salt hath lost its savor." How can any nation maintain the moral high ground with such an impotent Church backing it up?
Ah, but we'll discuss the Church another day. Today we are discussing national judgment. I apologize for deviating from the original topic, but I don't take back anything I said.
I think if there is anything to this, then there has to be a defining standard. We cannot know what is wrong until we know what is right. We cannot call a line crooked until we know what a straight line looks like. And if what is occurring is God's judgment, what is to be done to resolve it? How do we straighten the crooked line?
There is one Scripture that I think applies . The Bible says that when the wicked rules, the people mourn (Ref). I think the implication is fairly clear. I don't believe the wicked mentioned here is necessarily the political leaders. I think it is the prevalent ideologies in a particular society.
Now why would the people mourn if sinful ideologies grants them all the liberties they supposedly crave? Because it isn't about the sin. As I said, sin has always been present. It is when the approval of sin becomes the preeminent philosophy of society. When the previous norm becomes viewed as puritanical, and the perversion becomes the new normal state. I don't want to stray too deep into politics, but unless I am mistaken, there is a bill in congress now that will make it illegal for churches to say anything about homosexuality (s. 1390), and even pedophilia. We cannot call it sinful. Pedophilia will be a valid sexual "orientation". Can you remember when homosexuality was not an "orientation" but a "preference"? I can.
In fact, on this road, pedophilia and bestiality will soon supplant homosexuality as the new societal norm. Sex between consenting adults, regardless of gender, will be considered the puritanical view. I use sex as a means to illustrate, but it certainly goes beyond sexuality. Consider abortion. While pro-lifers fight the battle against late term abortions, early and mid term abortions become acceptable societal norms. Women seeking early and mid-term abortions barely meet with any resistance today. When post birth abortions come on the scene (and as heinous as it sounds, I firmly believe they will), and the pro-life movement gears up to fight that, late term abortions will then gain society's commendation.
There is one Scripture that I think applies . The Bible says that when the wicked rules, the people mourn (Ref). I think the implication is fairly clear. I don't believe the wicked mentioned here is necessarily the political leaders. I think it is the prevalent ideologies in a particular society.
Now why would the people mourn if sinful ideologies grants them all the liberties they supposedly crave? Because it isn't about the sin. As I said, sin has always been present. It is when the approval of sin becomes the preeminent philosophy of society. When the previous norm becomes viewed as puritanical, and the perversion becomes the new normal state. I don't want to stray too deep into politics, but unless I am mistaken, there is a bill in congress now that will make it illegal for churches to say anything about homosexuality (s. 1390), and even pedophilia. We cannot call it sinful. Pedophilia will be a valid sexual "orientation". Can you remember when homosexuality was not an "orientation" but a "preference"? I can.
In fact, on this road, pedophilia and bestiality will soon supplant homosexuality as the new societal norm. Sex between consenting adults, regardless of gender, will be considered the puritanical view. I use sex as a means to illustrate, but it certainly goes beyond sexuality. Consider abortion. While pro-lifers fight the battle against late term abortions, early and mid term abortions become acceptable societal norms. Women seeking early and mid-term abortions barely meet with any resistance today. When post birth abortions come on the scene (and as heinous as it sounds, I firmly believe they will), and the pro-life movement gears up to fight that, late term abortions will then gain society's commendation.
The progression is apparent.
Our grandmothers cringe at our young girls' complete lack of discretion and modesty. These girls wear clothing to church that is less modest than what was worn to beaches a few decades ago. Our grandfathers do the same when they see our young boys making babies, but not fathering them except at the order of the courts.
So it isn't really political. It is when the preeminent ideology contradicts God's moral standard, that is when I think a nation loses it's favor with God, and as a consequence, God's blessing. There are many challenges to my view. Feel free to leave a civil comment as to why, or why not, you think much or all of what we are seeing is God's judgment. When leaving a comment, brevity is the key. After all, if the Bard is correct, and brevity is the soul of wit, then it stands to reason that loquaciousness must be the soul of a dimwit.
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